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25 February 2008 - Channel 7 Today (Adelaide) - Petter Liddy’s aniques

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Graham Archer file tape - queston to Eric Van Kruyssen: Eric do you recognise this ... did you have a permit for this?

Associate Professor Mark Stanniforth: Its a very lucrative trade ...enormously lucrative the trade in antiquities is up there with drugs and gun running in the amount of money to be made in trading antiquities around the world.

It's almost 400 years old .... a silver piece of eight ... part of the treasure from a famous wreck by the name of the "Gilt Dragon"

We were settled by Europeans who came on ships and ships and shipwrecks are incredibly important in Australian European history So its a key to our past .. Yes key to our past.

Its journey began four centuries ago - when as part of eight huge chests of Spanish silver - it came to rest on the ocean floor - off the West Australian coast.

Graham Archer : From the sandy depths where they lay for centuries some of these "gilt dragon's" coins found their way into the collection of former Adelaide magistrate now convicted pedophile Peter Liddy ....

Police Historical Video: The coins at the top are pieces of eight from the Gilt Dragon - some of the coins are coated in coral there..."

Graham Archer: Because the "Gilt Dragon" came to grief in what later became Australian waters, anything salvaged from the wreck comes under the control of State and Federal Historic Shipwrecks Acts ...for two very good reasons.

Mark Stanniforth: One is to prevent the export of important cultural relics from Australia overseas - and the other is to protect relics from important shipwrecks.  

Graham Archer: Associate Professor Mark Staniforth is a maritime archaeologist at Flinders University and is an archeologist who believes all such relics belong in public museums - for all to share.

Do you think they there ought to be a trade in these kind of relics

Mark Stanniforth: No. In international law there is clear recognition that cultural material from underwater should not be traded.

Graham Archer: However the internet puts lucrative international markets at dealers finger tips.

Mark Stanniforth: Things like E-Bay now allow things to be traded to anywhere in the world and you can get a bid, package it up - and its very difficult for Government to do anything about that.  

Graham Archer: Even so, there are strict laws controlling the sale of Australian relics - and yet we were able to purchase this precious coin, and its certificate of authenticity, issued off Ebay with no trouble. And you might like to know who the seller was?

File tape of Mr Van Kruyssen being arrested.

Graham Archer: It was the lawyer Eric Van Kruyssen - Peter Liddy's friend and the so-called "independent" expert who in 2001 catalogued and valued his assets … frozen by the District Court to safeguard them so Liddy's victims could sue for compensation.

In defiance of the court order Van Kruyssen helped remove valuable items and kept their existence secret, excusing any notable ommission from his catalogue by saying, "I do not pretend this is a comprehensive list of items in the residence. I have not gone through all cupboards"

Today Tonight has spent six years tracking the missing items. We recovered three of Liddy's antique rifles from an auction house in Melbourne, delivered for sale on Van Kruyssen's instruction by his mate Frank English.

File tape Graham Archer: Didn't you put them up for sale?
File tape Frank English: eh?
File tape Graham Archer: Didn't put them up for sale?
File tape Frank English: I don't know if I can actually answer that.
File tape Graham Archer: Maybe this catalogue will help you?
File tape Frank English: Ah well, hum, I haven't actually seen the catalogue.
File tape Graham Archer: You haven't? Well let me show you - those are the rifles in question.

Graham Archer: The police recovered a further three rifles that had also passed through Van Kruyssen's hands and had been sold on to unwary buyers. Van Kruyssen was then arrested and charged with larceny - stealing goods that were under the protection of the court.  

Unfortunately, his file passed between four different prosecutors in as many months - and despite the dpp's commitment to get things right: 

File tape Stephen Pallaras DPP: On the subject of challenges to the criminal justice system there is only one challenge and that is for us to get it right.

Graham Archer: In this case they didn't - and dropped the charges. You may recall, in addition Today Tonight recovered 18 of Liddy's antique colt 45 revolvers which Van Kruyssen also claimed had vanished. And yet his inventory, prepared after visting Liddy's house, makes reference to the existence of Liddy's guns. He stated, "I have not made any specific allowance for the collection of the books nor of any of the guns holsters or powders horns."

These flare guns and this old blunderbuss effectively served as decoys. However, we have evidence that Van Kruyssen took the rifles and left the colt 45's hidden - to be collected later.

File tape: Well he was going to get them within a short time of them being put in there - short time of them being found up there and then I think he got a bit frightened about taking them. I never heard anything from then on.

Graham Archer: But so far Van Kruyssen has escaped prosecution over the guns. So what action will our authorities now take over his blatant sale of this silver piece of eight - in wilful defiance of State and Federal laws that he as a collector and a lawyer understands.

And if some one knowingly trades without getting the necessary permits, how do you assess that?

Mark Stanniforth: Well that is presumably an offence and - I am not a lawyer - but that is an offence under the Act.

Graham Archer: Added to this wilful disregard for the law is the fact that as seasoned Ebay trader, Van Kruyssen was offering this Australian relic up to the international market - where clearly it could disappear forever.

And there are penalties aren't there?

Mark Stanniforth: There are there are severe penalties for individuals and organisations who are involved in the illegal trade of this material.

Graham Archer: What kind of penalties are we talking about?

Mark Stanniforth: Tens of thousands of dollars in fines - some of the penalties are jail terms - some of the crimes are felonies so the Government and the Legislature have severe penalties for people doing this.  

Graham Archer: And Ebay itself carries this warning to those wanting to sell items subject to the Shipwrecks Act? There's really no excuse is there?"

Mark Stanniforth: Yes. None at all. None at all, yeah.

Graham Archer: Unfortunately the offenders are not always penalised which simply encourages people like Eric Van Kruyssen to continue to flout the law. Given the severity of those penalties do you think they are policed as vigilantly as they should be?

Mark Stanniforth: Idon't think they are policed as well as they could be - and I think that is usually to do with the fact that many Governments lack the resources, some lack the expertise and the knowledge within Governemt to actually try and do anything about these things, and that becomes a bit of a problem.  

Graham Archer: That shouldn't be a problem in this case as we've done most of the work for them.

Mark Stanniforth: You do have to make examples from time to time you do need to take people to court from time to time - particularly those people who blatantly and clearly ignore all the information that is taken to them.  

Graham Archer: And it wasn't a one-off. A week or two later we purchased another "Gilt Dragon” coin from Van Kruyssen - with its certificate of authenticity.  

But these documents are not are license to sell are they?

Mark Stanniforth: No they are not a license to sell. These certificates don't maintain ownership either, they just say you can maintain custody of them.

Graham Archer: Commercially that would reduce their value wouldn't it?

Mark Stanniforth: The value is reduced and the dealers don't necessarily want to communicate that ..

Graham Archer: The Department of Environment and Heritage would not disclose to us if these coins were ever Liddy's. Certainly they are similar to the relics Van Kruyssen removed - some of which were later recovered by police.

Police Press conference file tape: There are a number of artefacts still outstanding and I can give you a list of that later on.

Graham Archer: A large number of valuable collectables including coins and jewellery are still missing.   Is it possible these are a small part of that missing haul? If this is so, Van Kruyssen has an even more serious case to answer - one he should have already been forced to face over those stolen guns. Lets hope our Federal Authorities who administer the Historical Shipwrecks Act show a bit more resolve.

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